Took awhile for me to look at yet another brilliant Fish illustration that I thought was way over my head. But, and maybe this is the orthodox Jewish upbringing I had, (I’m quite recovered and an atheist now, thank god š ), but to me, this is very Old Testament. I see Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son and then god jumping in at the last moment of the ultimate test of fealty and saying, “well done, just testing you, here’s a goat to kill in my name instead.”
I think this illustrations ask that question very nicely. Who is Obama loyal too?
boxcar
you know, Fish — i first saw this the other day, and it was so wild i had no response. Even the next day, now, i can’t really be sure…Cool, hun! š
The scene puts obama as christ. So, why, i was lost, is the piece captioned “why I’m an atheist.” Maybe i’m dim, but — hun?
But how’s this — as obama sees himself as christ — then by definition there is no god (a god over him) — so he is an atheist. Best i can do.
š great piece. thanks.
And Glenn: sorry, but you are an atheist. just because you believe something else — that everything is defined by the natural world (and i can’t imagine a god can be included in the natural world) — that you don’t literally say “i don’t believe in a god” doesn’t take away from the fact that “i don’t believe in god” is by definition a part of your belief system. May be insignificant and just an irrelevant by-product. But no believing in god is atheism. No biggee. Take pride. Oh, and i am as atheist as they get, so no whining christer i be.
peace
boxcar
Glenn
Some conceptions of god describe an entity with power over life and death. Many will see Obama exercising these powers and assume he is either god or an agent of god.
I donāt.
The word āgodā remains a meaningless string of letters and, despite all of the murders in the name of god, there is no agreed upon definition yet.
I can neither believe nor disbelieve in a thing that is referred to by an undefined string of letters.
So your task is to define āgodā for the world and I will decide after all of the bloodletting disagreements are over whether I find that definition is meaningful.
You can call me all the names you wish but I refuse to answer to them. I have had many cats that have ignored the names they have been given by humans in the precisely the same way. Some say cats are gods.
boxcar
Glenn: I didn’t mean to be offensive to you or argumentative. Apologies if i have. It is cool to anchor yourself in the beliefs you have outlined. Very admirable. All i was saying was that as you described it, there is no place for a god. Hence, atheism. Atheism is not a “label” any more than being a “parent”. If you have kids, whether you want to be defined as such, you are a parent. And not believing in god, is atheism. I don’t see it as contentious. Simply definitions.
and i assume you are intelligent and sophisticated so i am not going to go into the “some say cats are gods”. I think we all know what is meant by “god”. If we state that whatever definition of god folks have, it is in the realm of the supernatural. That’s enough for the discussion we are having.
And thanks for your addition to trying to describe Fish’s illustration. It still roils me! š
peace.box
Glenn
If we all “understood”āThat is, had a common understanding of what god meansā then there would be no more religion fueled wars. And we aren’t getting anywhere near that.
You don’t believe in Santa Claus, do you? Would you call yourself an āAClausianā, or would you just dismiss the label āClausianā as irrelevant?
Anyway, Mr. Fish’s cartoons say so much more to me with so many fewer words than I’ll ever be capable of.
Since the word god remains undefined, I think Iāll use it in my private language to describe Mr. Fishās creative genius.
God, that cartoon was great!
Peace to you too, Boxcar.
boxcar
well said.
cheers
Glenn
I am not an atheist; I refuse to be defined by theists in terms of their theism.
I am a naturalist, believing that all phenomena can be explained in terms of the natural.
As defined in terms of the natural, self-described theists are merely supernaturalists.
Took awhile for me to look at yet another brilliant Fish illustration that I thought was way over my head. But, and maybe this is the orthodox Jewish upbringing I had, (I’m quite recovered and an atheist now, thank god š ), but to me, this is very Old Testament. I see Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son and then god jumping in at the last moment of the ultimate test of fealty and saying, “well done, just testing you, here’s a goat to kill in my name instead.”
I think this illustrations ask that question very nicely. Who is Obama loyal too?
you know, Fish — i first saw this the other day, and it was so wild i had no response. Even the next day, now, i can’t really be sure…Cool, hun! š
The scene puts obama as christ. So, why, i was lost, is the piece captioned “why I’m an atheist.” Maybe i’m dim, but — hun?
But how’s this — as obama sees himself as christ — then by definition there is no god (a god over him) — so he is an atheist. Best i can do.
š great piece. thanks.
And Glenn: sorry, but you are an atheist. just because you believe something else — that everything is defined by the natural world (and i can’t imagine a god can be included in the natural world) — that you don’t literally say “i don’t believe in a god” doesn’t take away from the fact that “i don’t believe in god” is by definition a part of your belief system. May be insignificant and just an irrelevant by-product. But no believing in god is atheism. No biggee. Take pride. Oh, and i am as atheist as they get, so no whining christer i be.
peace
boxcar
Some conceptions of god describe an entity with power over life and death. Many will see Obama exercising these powers and assume he is either god or an agent of god.
I donāt.
The word āgodā remains a meaningless string of letters and, despite all of the murders in the name of god, there is no agreed upon definition yet.
I can neither believe nor disbelieve in a thing that is referred to by an undefined string of letters.
So your task is to define āgodā for the world and I will decide after all of the bloodletting disagreements are over whether I find that definition is meaningful.
You can call me all the names you wish but I refuse to answer to them. I have had many cats that have ignored the names they have been given by humans in the precisely the same way. Some say cats are gods.
Glenn: I didn’t mean to be offensive to you or argumentative. Apologies if i have. It is cool to anchor yourself in the beliefs you have outlined. Very admirable. All i was saying was that as you described it, there is no place for a god. Hence, atheism. Atheism is not a “label” any more than being a “parent”. If you have kids, whether you want to be defined as such, you are a parent. And not believing in god, is atheism. I don’t see it as contentious. Simply definitions.
and i assume you are intelligent and sophisticated so i am not going to go into the “some say cats are gods”. I think we all know what is meant by “god”. If we state that whatever definition of god folks have, it is in the realm of the supernatural. That’s enough for the discussion we are having.
And thanks for your addition to trying to describe Fish’s illustration. It still roils me! š
peace.box
If we all “understood”āThat is, had a common understanding of what god meansā then there would be no more religion fueled wars. And we aren’t getting anywhere near that.
You don’t believe in Santa Claus, do you? Would you call yourself an āAClausianā, or would you just dismiss the label āClausianā as irrelevant?
Anyway, Mr. Fish’s cartoons say so much more to me with so many fewer words than I’ll ever be capable of.
Since the word god remains undefined, I think Iāll use it in my private language to describe Mr. Fishās creative genius.
God, that cartoon was great!
Peace to you too, Boxcar.
well said.
cheers
I am not an atheist; I refuse to be defined by theists in terms of their theism.
I am a naturalist, believing that all phenomena can be explained in terms of the natural.
As defined in terms of the natural, self-described theists are merely supernaturalists.
Honored to be censored by no other than.